Talk Talk Slams Ofcom over KC Bundle prospects.

[stormy]

Well Mr Granberg, come and bloody offer services here if you feel so strongly.

http://www.ispreview.co.uk/story/2010/09/27/uk-isp-talktalk-slams-ofcom-plan-to-let-kc-bundle-broadband-and-phone-in-hull.html

Its all stating the bloody obvious, but providers have had more than 10 years of time to come and offer services and not ONE of the big players has even had a sniff, So Talk Talk, put up or shut up.

[Scotty]

TalkTalk are claiming they are not happy, and that the bundling will put other providers off coming into Hull...

Since when have other providers ever shown any interest in coming Hull anyway? Bundles won't make a difference.

Like you say - if TalkTalk are really not happy with it, they should get their arses into Hull, and start providing.

[dylan]

Funny that they have an opinion on this isn't it? Perhaps TalkTalk were considering coming into Hull after all as the thread elsewhere in the forum suggested.

[bobthebuilder]

don't they do bundles in bt land

[commandergc]

Yes.

[Adrian]

TalkTalk are quite well known for been quite vocal about their opinions, particularly concerning the privacy of its users and at the tacticts used by the record labels to try and gleen and scare ISPs into handing over subscriber info (which is a good thing). I do think with this they should be putting their hands in their pockets and be the first large national company to offer like for like services and competition in the area

Time will tell I guess, but from what I can see the KC bundling is a done deal so they may be crying over spilled milk

[dunny]

i used to work for talk talk and i know for a fact they will NEVER come into hull its will not benifit them, so if they telling you they will they are lieing, Plus talk talk cant offer any faster speeds then karoo unless they lay fiber which they wont

[stormy]

To be honest all this talk about providers not being able to offer decent speeds on KC lines is rubbish.

At the end of the day NGA use the KC backhaul and they get fine speeds, my line I know can do 8Mbps comfortably with ADSL but I also know I only get this at like 7am in the morning when throughput is not throttled to death, 7am means 800kB/s for me, yet 7pm and I am lucky to get 20Kb/s sometimes, its the same connection 8Mbps solid sync. Its not a line issue, its a bandwidth allocation issue.

So if a provider used KC lines, the people who don't have bad lines in Hull would do well.

As for Talk Talk coming to Hull, yeh its highly unlikely like any of the other major service providers. They are just as Adrian says crying over spilt milk and to be honest its a poor show if they have zero intention of coming here anyway.

[MickyByte]

Yes but if other providers like Talk Talk for example are allowed to operate over KC's network the connection to you will be exactly the same or if-not slower because eventually the speed to which any customer obtains will be determined on how far away they are from the exchange. Remember Next Gen are only a small company at the moment who use different technology compared to KC, so it makes sense that customers of this service will be receiving ridicules speeds at the moment.

When companies such as Kingston Communication allow other businesses to use their network they certainly wont receive a greater allocation of bandwidth apposed to the provider they are connecting from. Remember that they are only 80 thousand customers in Hull so I presume that Talk Talk will be approaching this potential market with a limited budget, resulting in technology such as wireless or fiber optic cabling being disregarded before they even start and leaving plain old copper wiring that uses KC's exchanges to be used .

[stormy]

All the evidence suggests otherwise, Talk Talk would have to Pay KCOM for some kind of network allowance, as NGA do.

The issue will then become if Talk Talk use the same philosophy that KCOM/Karoo use to drive down the bandwidth requirements, something NGA (at least for now) are not doing when users are getting solid 40Mb/s+ speeds (I accept our copper telephone lines wont manage that). If any provider pays KCOM for an allocation, KCOM will have to allocate that regardless. If KC resell an amount of bandwidth and fail to provide it I am sure there would be legal implications, they will have proper SLAs and commercial agreements in place.

The throttling we see on Karoo is nothing to do with that, its purely Karoo getting the most money out of customers with as little bandwidth allocated as they can get away with. We have no gaurenteed level of service promised.

You seem to be mistaking line quality with the backhaul capacity. If you have a crappy line now, then yes, no matter which provider you get it will be shitty. My line as I explained is fairly new and in good condition. I am always connected at 8128kbps and never have any issues with the line, the throughput I get from Karoo is a different matter, and a different issue entirely. If I could get even 6Mbps througput on my Karoo connection when I wanted it, I would be happy. Sadly not the case.

Not all copper lines are crap by default, and I would argue KC lines are actually on average better than their BT cousins. I remember the days Karoo used to issue "connection" speed graphs showing that KC lines are actually superior to BTs in many respects. It was laughable at the time because connection speed does not equal throughput speed. So even with tip top lines Karoo still throttle it to death.

Its all semantics anyway, I doubt we will see any other fixed line providers ever bother. I want to be proved wrong on that, but I doubt I will be.

[Ace247]

Non of this is even worth talk talking about anyway if were still looking at 8Mb/s. It's bollox we should be looking at 50Mb/s and nothing less...

[dunny]

ADSL is adsl at the end of the day if you get 8mbs on karoo you will get 8mbs on talk talk bt virgin ect.. it dont matter what you think other providers will give you, if you have an 8mb line and you have talk talk they wont give you any faster cause your line and your distance from the exchange wont change, unless they build new exchanges (LOL)

nxtgenus is diffrent they may use karoo lines but your internet is provided wireless just like airnet so i dunno what it has to do with karoo, it just makes karoo look good thats all,

ADSL = PHONE LINE
NXTGEN = wireless
AIRNET =  wireless

So unless talk talk are offering wireless boradband you wont get any better,

plus talk talk isnt all what it seems i used to work for them and the customer service is worse then karoo,

i worked in sales but the amount of people i had calling sales complaing that the service wasnt switched on in time and that the broadband was allways getting d/c was unreal,

ohh and they called the sales line cause it was free the customer service was charged at premium rate :O

[Ace247]

plus talk talk isnt all what it seems i used to work for them and the customer service is worse then karoo,

Yep I work all over the UK and and know plenty of people who have, or have had Talk Talk and they are not happy bunnies at all...