Relay Nodes

[lubuntu]

I think Surebroadband not going down the relay route was extremely wise - as you say there are so many implications - imagine my connection being dependent on someone across the road - sounds very amateurish to me and a big big turn off.

<edited by Dylan - conversation had split so split topic>

[DarkJester]

It sounds amateurish because it is amateurish. Far to many things can go wrong in a domestic setting.

NGU seems to have expanded greatly very quickly and I believe that they have ideas above their infrastructure which is why they put the 5gb daily cap in place. In my opinion they are racing to get as many customers in place ASAP before Karoo rolls out fiber across hull. Lets look at some facts here...

If you have a slow Karoo connection then you cannot download much anyway therefore you are much more likely to find NGU an attractive proposition. They can offer you the headline speed and provided you can live with the 5gb daily cap (which you would have been under Karoo because of your speed) it looks like a great deal.

Until...

Wallop... Karoo offer you fiber and its stable with unlimited downloads (at least 12-8am) Sure it will be at a premium and you may have to have a phone lie etc however the main thrust of NGUs advertising (best speed) will be negated, they will only be able to offer a service that by comparison is slower, less reliable and capped to be almost useless. They will be considered to be the second best option where fiber is available.

And they know it.

The following is supposition
Interesting thought? whats the legal status of a householder who is providing this service? If they are no longer the termination point for a service then do they not have other obligations to consider such as business rates? Are NGU somehow managing to avoid paying some dues to some organization or authority here. If the householder receives benefits in kind from a subsidized service then do they have to declare this?

[lubuntu]

@DarkJester - I think there may actually be an increasing market for wifi if only because the trend is for fewer people to have a landline and to save money - along with many other socio-economic factors.  Everyone used to have a landline back in the day but not now and I don't really see that changing.  I am sure fibre will bring back a lot of disgruntled ex-KC customers though.

Interesting supposition about whether someone is actually part of the "provision" of the ISP service by having a relay though - knowing what the HMRC are like I am sure they would take an interest especially if you are self-employed!? (But then again it would be something you could put down as a business expense ?) I expect a lot of it may come down to the wording of the contract with NGU?  Also important is whether that person actually owns their own home or is renting it - if they are renting it then I would have thought that they would have to get permission off their landlord?

[DarkJester]

Fair point about the cost of a landline, it was a factor in going to nextgenus myself however when you look at the comparison costs per gigabyte between NGU and Karoo with the current NGU FUP its certainly cheaper at the moment to be with Karoo and you get a landline +calls allowance to boot.

I suppose it depends on your usage patterns though. I was perfectly happy on the original NGU FUP but the 5gb daily (with no overnight - not even occasional) was too restrictive.

[commandergc]

I suppose it depends on your usage patterns though. I was perfectly happy on the original NGU FUP but the 5gb daily (with no overnight - not even occasional) was too restrictive.

Yep this why i'm also leaving.

[richardmyers]

if they are renting it then I would have thought that they would have to get permission off their landlord?

NGU recommend anyone renting their property has the permission of the landlord before booking in an installation.

I suppose another interesting variable here could be council houses as they tend to have various restrictions etc.

[DarkJester]

I would have thought that if they would fall foul of anything it would be avoiding business rates on the properties providing the relay. (if payable)

However I am sure that Nextgenus are professional and thought about these (possible) implications before proceeding...

...hang on.

[dylan]

I believe it's always been necessary to pay business rates on any business properties. This includes fibre installations and wireless masts used by a business to provide service to customers. There was a stink kicked up about this a little while back, ISP Preview ran a story: http://www.ispreview.co.uk/story/2009/10/26/new-tax-on-uk-wireless-broadband-networks-raises-concern.html

I don't know if it all came to anything or not?

[dylan]

The Conservatives did suggest back in the day that they would go easy on this sort of thing (but then that might have been just another pre-election promise).

[DarkJester]

From that article it looks like anyone hosting a relay should be paying business rates on the property.

[richardmyers]

I wonder if this applies to the CIC setup though.

[dylan]

I wonder if this applies to the CIC setup though.

Depends on the local authority I believe. Some LAs do give rate relief to CICs and some don't but none of them have to.

[ramtops]

It sounds amateurish because it is amateurish. Far to many things can go wrong in a domestic setting.

NGU seems to have expanded greatly very quickly and I believe that they have ideas above their infrastructure which is why they put the 5gb daily cap in place. In my opinion they are racing to get as many customers in place ASAP before Karoo rolls out fiber across hull. Lets look at some facts here...

If you have a slow Karoo connection then you cannot download much anyway therefore you are much more likely to find NGU an attractive proposition. They can offer you the headline speed and provided you can live with the 5gb daily cap (which you would have been under Karoo because of your speed) it looks like a great deal.

THe point is, also, that very few people achieve the sort of speed they advertise - they're very close to misselling, in my view. My suspicion is that they are in the invidious position of needing new signups to keep going, and without additional capital, they're likely to crash and burn in the near future. Their wish to censor everything that is said about them bolsters this suspicion.

[DarkJester]

My thoughts exactly....

and from what I can ascertain CICs are liable for all taxes etc.

[Radioshack]

My thoughts exactly....

and from what I can ascertain CICs are liable for all taxes etc.

Really where did you read this, Last i heard charitable organisations don't pay business rates, Proof please darkjester??