Ofcom considers fast broadband outlook and pledges clarity for investors

[miken]

http://www.ofcom.org.uk/media/news/2007/09/nr_20070926

"Ofcom proposes to play its part in facilitating timely and efficient investment in very high speed broadband networks with a regulatory policy based on the same principles it established for current generation broadband. Of particular relevance are the principles to:-

* promote competition at the deepest possible point in the broadband value chain, to optimise the opportunities for innovation and sustainable competition
* optimise the scope for innovation to maximise consumer and business benefits from these new services; and
* require equivalence where operators with market power must make their network infrastructure available to their competitors on the same basis.

In addition Ofcom proposes two new principles specific to next generation access networks:-

* regulation must reflect the significant commercial investment risk associated with deployment of these networks in order to ensure incentives for investment are retained; and
* investment in these networks requires regulatory clarity. It is important that the regulatory regime remains in place for a sufficient time to allow investors the long-term clarity they need to invest with confidence."

Could KC be forced to make changes? or am i reading it wrong?

[stormy]

I think you are reading it wrong...

The key phrase is '..based on the same principles it established for current generation broadband.'

i.e. nothing will change for the KCOM area.

Mike

[dylan]

I think you are reading it wrong...

The key phrase is '..based on the same principles it established for current generation broadband.'

i.e. nothing will change for the KCOM area.

Mike

I think that's one of the complicated things about the whole Karoo affair. While Karoo obviously has significant market power, it doesn't have any competition. Karoo dictate that the lack of competition is due to the fact that noone wants to sell broadband in the area. Others (like lefty from these forums) suggest that Karoo are deliberately preventing other companies from coming in to Hull.

If it is true that Karoo are stopping other companies from competing, and enough fuss can be made to force ofcom to investigate then perhaps they can be cajoled into doing something about it  We can always hope!

[stormy]

Unfortunatly I actually believe KC on this point, they are not stopping any companies coming into the market, I just think the prices they charge (which are in line with BT) for network access means that unless an ISP can seriously get a massive chunk of KC users its just not commercially viable, its much better for the ISP to concentrate on the UK market where there is a bigger pool of users.

Its interesting at the last count that KC had ~75,000 broadband users in the East Riding, but how many of those users would have to jump ship before an ISP would get the money back for the investment needed here.

I think an Entanet guy looked into it a while back and the figures just did not add up. So its not viable, KC know this and laugh all the way to be bank.

Because of the small market area, Ofcom should put tougher terms on KC so that other companies can compete, but I am not holding my breath for this to happen. Of course KC argue this point saying that would be unfair because its a smaller company.

Mike

[cuffylad]

Below is a mail i got from Diana Wallis MEP, she has taken it upon herself to try and get a better deal for us people in Hull. Thought you guys might be interested.


Thank you very much for taking the time to contact me about the provision of broadband services in the Hull area. We have had a huge response to the publicity which has appeared both locally and now to some extent nationally.

I contacted Ofcom, the independent regulator and competition authority for the UK communications industries, last year after receiving several complaints from disgruntled Kingston customers. Generally people seemed dissatisfied with the comparative cost and service levels of the broadband service provided by Kingston Communications, and the lack of any alternative providers in the area.

Disappointingly the response I received from Ofcom was that the level of complaint was not particularly 'out of the ordinary'. In order to address this I would urge you to register your complaint by calling Ofcom on 020 7981 3040. You will probably be told that Ofcom do not respond to or pursue complaints by individual consumers, but they do register and monitor them. It is my intention to seek a further meeting with OFCOM to go through the all the issues that have been raised with me with them. It is particularly important for people to make their views know to them at the moment as they are apparently conducting a routine review of UK broadband markets. This review will in due course have to be discussed with the European Competition Commissioner Neejlie Kroes.

I am also liaising directly with Commissioner Kroes who has confirmed that in overseeing the review they will pay particular attention as to why alternative operators do not offer their services in our area, this with a view to seeing whether the regulatory measures imposed in 2004 need to be reinforced so as to stimulate competition.

I have also had a recent meeting with Kingston. They maintain that there is nothing to stop alternative suppliers offering a service but that they just decline to do so, they also feel not surprisingly that the service they offer is comparable with other providers and cost effective. They tell me they tried to tempt an alternative operator in last year but it could only be achieved by payment of a subsidy and accordingly floundered.

Given the level of response I have received I feel that this matter must be pursued with the regulators to try to find a way of achieving choice and effective competition in our locality. I will of course keep you advised as to all developments.

Thank you again for contacting me,


Yours sincerely,

Diana Wallis MEP

[stormy]

Very interesting Cuffylad, thanks for posting. I still feel nothing will change but I will be very pleasantly suprised if it does!

Mike

[cuffylad]

I agree Mike, maybe if we all rang ofcom, logged our concerns and spread the word about this forum more people would do the same and we might get somewhere.

[dylan]

Cheers cuffylad, very interesting!

[dylan]

One interesting thing about Karoo, that doesn't seem to come up in any of these reports is that they do not (alledgedlly) use the same type and thickness of copper cables on their network as is found on the rest of the UK's (BT) network.

Because of that, any other broadband provider wanting to connect their kit to KC's network would find it wouldn't fit, and would have to buy new, rarer kit at a much higher price.

That's one sinister way of keeping the competition out.....

[The Dominator]

Is it worth working on a standard letter that people could use to lobby ofcom?  A lot of people are not so literate and find writing letters intimidating.

KC and ofcom use this as a way of getting rid of the vast majority of complaints (can you put that in writing please..) that and the apathy argument (i never managed to find the time..).

If we can make it simple and quick to send a response then maybe we can stoke the fire a little more...

[Hobbisbang]

What is it with all this Copper talk I worked as a BT jointer for  about 10 years. Copper ally etc makes no difference. All the network equipment that I have come across in the Kingston area is all BT standard. Im now a communications service manager who was responsible for £100,000,000s worth of company phone systems. Kingston hinders other operators but do not stop them. Look at the facts.

Kingston 75,000 potential customers, £10 million to cover the area with Backhaul and DSLAM. Ouch!!!

Other ISP wanders in Kingston start a price war other ISP lost lots of money!!!

The only way we will get a service that will be the envy of the nation is if the residents of this area start there own ISP!!!! And yes it is possible !!!

10,000 pay £10 into fighting fund (Kingston local net open own ISP in the largest  exchange) with capital funding and European money customers get cost based internet cheap not free just the cost of running the service. Prove model and open another exchange.

12 months coverage of the network no profit in it for Kingston end of story.

Ok im a dreamer but all things are possible.

[miken]

Interesting post,

What process would be required to start a customer ran very minimal profit isp? - note i'm not talking a trash isp trying to sell umpteen mbps connections at £2, but realistically priced to provide a excelent service with little to no profit?

Mike

[dylan]

Keep an eye on the 'Karoo Alternatives' board. Fastethernet was bashing around some ideas elsewhere on the forum. Something should pop up there at some point  watch this space.

As for delivering broadband over KCs infrastructure, it looks pretty cost prohibitive - This post attempts to analyze the cost http://karooforums.net/index.php/topic,23.0.html