Karoo, KCom and Kingston Communications in the news..

[Fastethernet]

KCOM are using .3mm copper cabling which significantly increases the cost of any DSLAM's. The other major issue stems from KCOM having far too many exchanges compared to BT, nine in the space BT would have put three. That’s three times as much fibre to be run through the city. These costs make it uneconomically viable for any ISP to set up in Hull.

[Adrian]

That's really interesting stuff Adrian thanks.

To be honest, I don't know where the rumours originated, just that you can find them knocking about on websites here and there. To be fair, I have to take you at your word as I'm not in the ISP trade myself and what you're saying makes sense.

At a guess - Are you a telecomms engineer of some type I doubt that you'd compromise yourself by admitting that you work for KC if you do, but regardless it's still good to have someone like yourself around to offer a techie slant on news 

Dylan

No - just a student  Although I am very interested in communications technology etc... I also have a few friends in the business and know people who are very knowledgeable in in this area of technology...

[Adrian]

KCOM are using .3mm copper cabling which significantly increases the cost of any DSLAM's. The other major issue stems from KCOM having far too many exchanges compared to BT, nine in the space BT would have put three. That’s three times as much fibre to be run through the city. These costs make it uneconomically viable for any ISP to set up in Hull.

It doesn't increase cost of DSLAMs...  as the cabling from the exchange telephone equipment to the DSLAMs is independent.

Further to this there are some ISPs such as BEthere (BE*) who operate on the BT network and are actually using the same BROADCOM DSLAMs as what KC are using...

I agree that there are alot of exchanges, but this is good as it provides are more closely joined infrastructure. I also agree that the initial infrastructure costs of linking the exchanges resilliently would be more costly are there are more wires, but once the fibre is in.. it's in....

Another providers costs would vary depending on if they were putting their own kit in the exchanges or reselling the KC services, even so any other company would use the KC network between exchanges rather than running their own cables...

[Fastethernet]

Hi Adrianaz,

As far as I am aware the vast majority of exchanges utilise 0.5mm copper meaning any hardware which does interface with 0.3mm specialist, raising the cost of said equipment.

KCOM are not going to make it easy for another operator to set up in Hull, look at Giacom and Azzurri. KCOM would charge extortionate rates to use their fibre (which I think they do now anyway).

Hull has one of the lowest broadband take ups in the country, maybe that is KCOM fault, maybe its simply a demographic factor.....

Its simply not economically viable for an ISP to invest such a huge amount of resources for 350,000 users. I truly wish they would.

What is needed here is a more pragmatic approach to this issue, community broadband would be one way of delivering a better service for all of the residents in Hull. A network owned by the people and run for the benefit of the people.

Just my two cents worth.

[miken]

What is needed here is a more pragmatic approach to this issue, community broadband would be one way of delivering a better service for all of the residents in Hull. A network owned by the people and run for the benefit of the people.

Wow thats weird I was just thinking a similar thing earlier - but how would it be possible to do that? dont know bout anyone else but i dont have the cash a single 10Mbps line etc. :S

[Fastethernet]

A good example of a community broadband project is ONSNET. A community funded fibre optic network straight into people’s homes. The point of the project was to install and maintain the network onto which providers could sell services over. I seem to remembers seeing some figures like 100Mbit broadband for 18€ a month.  The point is to create a network which would encourage companies into to Hull to sell their products. The network could also be used to help those in the community; discharged patients who require regular monitoring could have any diagnostic hardware send important data back to their doctor in real time.

It’s all about reaching a critical mass, if 50% of people within a community will commit to buying into this type of system then you have a recipe for success. So now it's really a case of generating an interest in a community broadband project and getting 50% of Hull to sign up to it 

[miken]

Regarding onsnet, a local guy from Withernsea http://www.neoeon.com/contact.htm contacted us regarding FttP (Fibre-to-the-Premisis) in Hull I beleive the guy currently or in the past has ran a wireless network to be used around the area.
 
AdslGuide Forum Link...

Basically as you say local interest needs to be like 40%+ atleast!

A community ran broadband/network would be excellent though.

[Fastethernet]

I have met with the chap from Neoeon. He made some excellent points and talks a great deal of sense.

To me the solution to KCOM monopoly will only be resolved when the people of Hull take affirmative action. Tell everyone you know in Hull about FttP, ask them to write to their local councillor, their local MP, their euro MP. If you guys are serious about change then lets get together and write a default letter which everyone can use.

[Hobbisbang]

Copper smoper its all a mish mash of cables there is even aluminium paper covered lead lined joints in the ground its what was trendy at the time as for .3mm and .5mm its all down to attenuation and the distances to the PCP primary connection points (green boxes) and how may buckets of water are in the UG joints (underground joints)

Fact is if you have a crackle free line and no echo you are very likely to get upto 12mb even 24mb if we had the right DSLAM (digital subscriber line access multiplexor) but we don’t so ill stop dreaming.
 

[stormy]

Even when we do it will be throttle city....

[Fastethernet]

When Japanese users can receive 661Mbits/s and South Korea's average user receives 45Mbits/s you have to take a serious look at the current infrastructure last mile and backbone. The whole countries network is creaking and needs a serious overhaul if England wants to keep up with the digital age. It would be great if Hull could lead the rest of the country with the first FttP network 

[The Dominator]

Heres one about Affiniti giving quality service (something the KCOM group is not known for when it comes to residential...)
Link to article.

Edited to point to the article - thanks for pointing it out  

[stormy]

All I get is:

'Bad Request'

Whatever that means, when I click that link.

[Robo]

Try this link:-

http://www.computerweekly.com/Articles/2007/11/09/228012/mid-yorkshire-nhs-trust-upgrades-network-to-improve-patient.htm

[stormy]

That works, ta.