ScottAngry
Tech Support
Broadband Provider: KAROO & BT
Posts: 33
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« on: October 21, 2008, 08:42:41 pm » |
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Karoo amend terms and conditions - add this section
(iii) You have permitted (whether knowingly or not) a third party (or third parties)
to access the Service using a wireless connection over Your Communications
Line.
No more sharing from 3rd November - knowingly or not ...
9.6.4 We shall be entitled to terminate the Service immediately if We discover that:
(i) You have accessed the Service using Your username and password on
multiple occasions, simultaneously;
(ii) You have permitted (whether knowingly or not) a third party to access the Service
using Your username and password; or
(iii) You have permitted (whether knowingly or not) a third party (or third parties)
to access the Service using a wireless connection over Your Communications
Line.
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« Last Edit: October 21, 2008, 08:55:07 pm by ScottAngry »
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miken
Ambassador
Director
Broadband Provider: Karoo
Posts: 597
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« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2008, 08:45:56 pm » |
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Maybe trying to force people who share there connection (not residential) to pay loads for a special line?
Could be a nice way of getting out of contracts lol
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ScottAngry
Tech Support
Broadband Provider: KAROO & BT
Posts: 33
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« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2008, 08:47:29 pm » |
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Maybe trying to force people who share there connection (not residential) to pay loads for a special line?
Could be a nice way of getting out of contracts lol
If you don't know and/or don't secure your network, you could be blocked and as KC are the only ISP you would be cast into a dialup wilderness  |
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miken
Ambassador
Director
Broadband Provider: Karoo
Posts: 597
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« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2008, 08:54:20 pm » |
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True but maybe kc are covering them selves for illegal things which happen over their connections by 3rd parties sat outside peoples houses? since they are putting the responsibility of wireless security on the bill payer.
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Ayreon
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« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2008, 09:51:35 pm » |
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Scott, where have you got that change in T&C from, and what exactly does it mean.I have my desk top hard wired and the wifes laptop wireless....the package was sold under this enticement...."Perfect for you if you live in a shared household or you have an older family with teenagers who use the internet a lot. Karoo Pro is also ideal if your household has multiple computers in different rooms and you download lots of large files and information."
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« Last Edit: October 21, 2008, 09:57:40 pm by Ayreon »
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miken
Ambassador
Director
Broadband Provider: Karoo
Posts: 597
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« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2008, 10:04:57 pm » |
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Lol of course thats ok, Its saying you cant share with third parties such as running a wifi hotspot and allowing passing public access via your kc account. Your own family is allowed to use wifi lolIts on http://karoo.co.uk/regulatory.asp btw. |
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« Last Edit: October 21, 2008, 10:11:12 pm by miken »
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miken
Ambassador
Director
Broadband Provider: Karoo
Posts: 597
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« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2008, 10:10:45 pm » |
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The T&C change is only relevant to Karoo's wifi hotspot Last updated on 03/11/08 - 011
Recent amendments: Clauses 9.6.4 9.6
If You access the Service from any of Our Wi-Fi Hotspots, the following additional provisions will apply to You:
9.6.1
Access to the Service is provided via Our Wi-Fi Hotspots without any additional Charges. You must use the username and password that was provided to You when You registered with Us for provision of the Services;
9.6.2
You acknowledge that Your use of the Service is at your own risk. The Service is provided on an "as-available" basis. We do not warrant that the Service will be uninterrupted, timely, secure or error-free at all times or will meet Your requirements; and We are not responsible for the security, integrity, accuracy or completeness of any information that You transmit or receive while using the Service;
9.6.3
You will keep confidential any username or passwords provided to You in order to access the Service, and will not disclose them to any other person for any reason. You will be responsible for any loss that arises from you losing, misusing or otherwise disclosing any such username or passwords. If you lose any such username or passwords, you should contact the Customer Services Team immediately. Please note that we are not obliged to issue a refund if You lose Your username or password; and
9.6.4
We shall be entitled to terminate the Service immediately if We discover that:
(i)
You have accessed the Service using Your username and password on multiple occasions, simultaneously;
(ii)
You have permitted (whether knowingly or not) a third party to access the Service using Your username and password; or
(iii)
You have permitted (whether knowingly or not) a third party (or third parties) to access the Service using a wireless connection over Your Communications Line. So I couldn't give someone else access to my username and password so they could connect to Karoo's Wifi hotspots |
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ScottAngry
Tech Support
Broadband Provider: KAROO & BT
Posts: 33
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« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2008, 10:14:10 pm » |
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The T&C change is only relevant to Karoo's wifi hotspot Last updated on 03/11/08 - 011
Recent amendments: Clauses 9.6.4 9.6
If You access the Service from any of Our Wi-Fi Hotspots, the following additional provisions will apply to You:
9.6.1
Access to the Service is provided via Our Wi-Fi Hotspots without any additional Charges. You must use the username and password that was provided to You when You registered with Us for provision of the Services;
9.6.2
You acknowledge that Your use of the Service is at your own risk. The Service is provided on an "as-available" basis. We do not warrant that the Service will be uninterrupted, timely, secure or error-free at all times or will meet Your requirements; and We are not responsible for the security, integrity, accuracy or completeness of any information that You transmit or receive while using the Service;
9.6.3
You will keep confidential any username or passwords provided to You in order to access the Service, and will not disclose them to any other person for any reason. You will be responsible for any loss that arises from you losing, misusing or otherwise disclosing any such username or passwords. If you lose any such username or passwords, you should contact the Customer Services Team immediately. Please note that we are not obliged to issue a refund if You lose Your username or password; and
9.6.4
We shall be entitled to terminate the Service immediately if We discover that:
(i)
You have accessed the Service using Your username and password on multiple occasions, simultaneously;
(ii)
You have permitted (whether knowingly or not) a third party to access the Service using Your username and password; or
(iii)
You have permitted (whether knowingly or not) a third party (or third parties) to access the Service using a wireless connection over Your Communications Line. So I couldn't give someone else access to my username and password so they could connect to Karoo's Wifi hotspots It is not the wifi hotspot - see section iii - it specifically refers to your communication line i.e. your telephone line - unless you are running the wifi spot from your personal line lol  |
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miken
Ambassador
Director
Broadband Provider: Karoo
Posts: 597
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« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2008, 10:19:25 pm » |
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It is not the wifi hotspot - see section iii - it specifically refers to your communication line i.e. your telephone line - unless you are running the wifi spot from your personal line lol I take that as Karoo's legal team being stupid rushed. Since Section 9.6 refers to Wi-Fi hotspots and 9.6.X are like subclauses or something (I don't know the legal jargon), they probably just got confused about it probably didn't understand what the karoo person was telling them who probably didnt know what he was talking about anyway? I'm sure it will be changed eventually, probably no doubt after they read this topic. We shouldn't of mentioned it, could of been nice way of getting out of contract if another provider appears in the next year, Karoo I run a wifi network can you terminate my contract please |
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ScottAngry
Tech Support
Broadband Provider: KAROO & BT
Posts: 33
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« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2008, 10:27:21 pm » |
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Perhaps Mike, but on the other hand 9.6.4 could be the error and it should read 9.7 - as section 9 refers to use of service.
I would be very suspicious of this as they specifically refer to your communication line - and that given, then it could be exactly that, and not related to the wifi hotspot which is 9.6.1 , 9.6.2 and 9.6.3
I would be cautious as this is the only amendment they have made and I am sure they would have had it checked by the legal department - my suspicion is that it is sharing you wifi at home via sharing the key or leaving it unlocked - ie loss of revenue to KC may result in loss of ADSL - and if you lose ADSL who else will you turn to in KC area ?
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Ayreon
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« Reply #10 on: October 21, 2008, 10:36:38 pm » |
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Reading the full amendment and not just a snippet now puts it into context...no probs for home users.
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jeraboam
Receptionist
Posts: 6
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« Reply #11 on: November 05, 2008, 05:21:49 pm » |
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Actually, these terms are still a little confusing. Although 9.6 states the subclauses following it only apply to the wireless service, 9.6.4(iii) refers to a "Communications line". This certainly implies a home connection, as nothing that could be described as a "line" is involved in the wireless connection on my part.
If this is the case then it's quite unacceptable - I would in breach of my terms of service for letting my in laws use my home connection with their laptops. Even interpreting 9.6.4(iii) to only apply to the city centre wireless, I would also be in breach if I let a friend use my laptop to use the internet.
Furthermore, the 9.6.4(i) is more restrictive than it first looks. My wife works in the city centre. We both have laptops. If she connects to the city wireless whilst at work at the same time I open my laptop in a cafe and hop online *pfft* our contract can be terminated. I'm surprised they haven't allowed for this eventuality by allowing a maximum number of concurrent connections.
Any Karoo staff care to reply?
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desandcaz
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« Reply #12 on: November 06, 2008, 09:45:13 am » |
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this is the change to the standard terms from karoo,
9.6.4
We shall be entitled to terminate the Service immediately if We discover that:
(i)
You have accessed the Service using Your username and password on multiple occasions, simultaneously;
(ii)
You have permitted (whether knowingly or not) a third party to access the Service using Your username and password; or
(iii)
You have permitted (whether knowingly or not) a third party (or third parties) to access the Service using a wireless connection over Your Communications Line
when i asked them about this, i got this reply!
Thank you for your enquiry regarding the recent changes to the Karoo Standard Terms.
We confirm that the changes were implemented to prevent unauthorised usage of the Karoo service by a small number of our customers. The changes do not prevent our customers from connecting to the Karoo service from multiple computers, in their own household, or from remote wi-fi access points, legitimately. We are sorry if we have caused you any concern.
We will make suitable amendments to the Karoo Standard Terms, to provide clarification on this point, in the next edition of the Karoo Standard Terms.
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jeraboam
Receptionist
Posts: 6
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« Reply #13 on: November 06, 2008, 09:52:21 am » |
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when i asked them about this, i got this reply!
Thank you for your enquiry regarding the recent changes to the Karoo Standard Terms.
We confirm that the changes were implemented to prevent unauthorised usage of the Karoo service by a small number of our customers. The changes do not prevent our customers from connecting to the Karoo service from multiple computers, in their own household, or from remote wi-fi access points, legitimately. We are sorry if we have caused you any concern.
We will make suitable amendments to the Karoo Standard Terms, to provide clarification on this point, in the next edition of the Karoo Standard Terms.
That clears things up considerably. Thanks for that! |
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ScottAngry
Tech Support
Broadband Provider: KAROO & BT
Posts: 33
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« Reply #14 on: November 06, 2008, 07:21:04 pm » |
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when i asked them about this, i got this reply!
Thank you for your enquiry regarding the recent changes to the Karoo Standard Terms.
We confirm that the changes were implemented to prevent unauthorised usage of the Karoo service by a small number of our customers. The changes do not prevent our customers from connecting to the Karoo service from multiple computers, in their own household, or from remote wi-fi access points, legitimately. We are sorry if we have caused you any concern.
We will make suitable amendments to the Karoo Standard Terms, to provide clarification on this point, in the next edition of the Karoo Standard Terms.
That clears things up considerably. Thanks for that! As I said out the outset of this thread they ARE looking to disconnect unsecured wifi points http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008/11/05/uk-isp-cuts-punters-open-wifi |
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