BT Are All Over Hull and Beverley

[Hobbisbang]

I have just been looking at the network maps of the area. Bt have multiple fibre interconnections ranging from 655mb to 10,000mb all are exchange interconnections for KCon

If you can find a building with roof space on the truck links I can categorically state that there is sufficient bandwidth in the ground right upto the war memorial in hull.

Mostly BES and LAN extensions.

Anyone got a spare tower and £80k and ill give you a mesh that could support 1km range in the city centre.

 

[miken]

more than you want to know

£140 a meter for duct work!!!

But i have had a look at BT and the interconnections for BT is all over HULL and Beverley!!!

one passes my building

 BES10,000 flys past the outside of my office.

Huh, your saying BT do have some cabling already in Hull? so why dont they use it?

Dont get it, BT should be oblidged to provide as much of the country as possible, surly by providing more of the country with the opertunity they can only get benefits. Who cares if Kcom is already setup here im sure loads of people would be interested in offers from the bt network.
For example if SKY llu'd sure they would get customers looking for tv, phone and net etc.


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Is the cabling going from BT's network to Kc exchanges, so KC internet is via BT's network? or BT just have cabling around the city which is unused?

[Hobbisbang]

Kcon have to connect to the national exchange system some how and as BT built it and run it under the open reach brand Kcon need large pipes to connect the exchanges.

Looking at the diagrams (which I can’t post due to official secrets etc) they have massive interconnections.

The theory would be to spur into them and provide a wireless exchange.

Don’t know how cost efficient this would be but I’m having a look

PS if anyone wants a look it will cost you a pint in a dark pub.   

[stormy]

Official Secrets? LOL You mean copyright laws surely, BT <> KC interconnects are not covered by the Official Secrets Act.

Besides, of course BT and KC have interconnects, but it doesnt mean BT have cabling all over the city. If BT could easily compete with little start up cost don't you think they would have done so by now?



See:

http://www.ofcom.org.uk/static/archive/oftel/publications/licensing/2001/king1001.htm

[Hobbisbang]

Ok copy write but I know the CSS system that BT use for national records is official secrets as I had to sign it years ago

[Hobbisbang]

Just had a word with friend in BT

Significant market presence = KCOM
Monopoly = BT

KCon could rape Bt for trying

end of the BT story!! but any independent provider could use the links (for a price)

[stormy]

Heh, your friend is mistaken, BT and KC have 'SMP' in their respective home network areas. or where they are the only provider.

Neither has a monopoly, there is nothing but economics stopping BT competing in Hull and East Yorkshire.

BT has slightly different conditions imposed by ofcom but nothing to stop them coming to Hull. KC could not rape anyone for coming to Hull except by charging extortionate LLU and wholesale prices.

From the ofcom wholesale broadband access review this year, which incidently did nothing for Hull.

1.19 In three of these markets where competitive pressures are weaker (the Hull area, Market 1 and Market 2) we consider that BT (in Market 1 and Market 2) and Kingston (in the Hull area) have significant market power (SMP). An operator with SMP is one who is not sufficiently constrained by competition to prevent them from acting to the detriment of consumers by, for instance, limiting choice and availability.

More at:

http://www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/wbamr/

[miken]

So could BT come into the area and setup a few exchanges and wire in the area if they wanted to?
With nothing to do with kcom, kcom cant do anything to stop them coming into the area and setting up there own network?

Would it be allowed for BT to buy out kcom? - therefore would it be very difficult to change us to being part of the bt network like the rest of the coutry as there are already interconnections betweent BT York, Leeds and Sheffield which could be used to connect into their network?


Sorry thats quite a few questions but i'm really interested.

Mike

[Hobbisbang]

Stormy

Unfortunately we will have to disagree
•   BT open reach are the new network operators they are responsible for the national grid. Every operator has to interconnect with them
MCI world Com
Telstra
Opal telecom (carphone warehouse)
World wide telecommunications
Cable and wireless (energis)
Thus (demon internet)
Etc etc etc

Now you are telling me that they don’t have a monopoly when as of Jan 2007 BT are unregulated in their pricing and network service provision. I think you need to look the term monopoly up!

BT are a monster, I worked for them for 7 years and I know their strengths and weaknesses incumbent in such a gargantuan operator.

Piss ant KCon are tiny.  Opal telecom has a market value in excess of 3000 MILLION
Hmm -  Kcon a paltry 450 million. Pocket change!!!!!!!

BT are the network. Other providers have started to provide 21CN networks and they have the fibre in the ground. BUT WHO DO ALL THE OPPERATORS USE FOR THE LAST MILE -  HMM let me think BT!!!!!!!

Now, please don’t insult my intelligence as you will have a very difficult time in convincing me you have worked in network provisioning and global crossing management.

BT are the network and will always be the network here like KCon will always be the last mile until wireless is mature and can provide telecommunications services over air.

Yes, it is currently possible (not LOS) but still in its infancy.

(Oh and if your unsure what I’m talking about it’s Q931 and ETIS services like PRI and Bri).

If you would like to add something constructive, please add intelligent comments to the forum. Brow beating and tub thumping will only cheapen the discussion and perhaps make members wonder who you are actually working for.

I have the network maps I know the BT services in the area. I will look at network alternatives what pray tell are you doing that is constructive???

 

[Hobbisbang]

So could BT come into the area and setup a few exchanges and wire in the area if they wanted to?
With nothing to do with kcom, kcom cant do anything to stop them coming into the area and setting up there own network?

Would it be allowed for BT to buy out kcom? - therefore would it be very difficult to change us to being part of the bt network like the rest of the coutry as there are already interconnections betweent BT York, Leeds and Sheffield which could be used to connect into their network?


Sorry thats quite a few questions but i'm really interested.

Mike

Miken

This is the point me and Stomy disagree on BT cannot buy KCon

Telstra can
Opal Can
Cable and wireless Can

BT cannot

[stormy]

I didnt say BT can buy KC, I said they could supply telephone and broadband services in Hull. They just realise its not commercially viable or worthwhile.

BT are not a monopoly. Its like calling KC a monopoly, they have SMP in areas of the UK and to be honest that SMP is getting smaller all the time although granted not quick enough for most peoples liking.

This is exactly why BT Openreach was spit away from BT retail, to ensure other providers had fair access to LLU. I am not insulting anyones intelligence.

This is my last word on the subject, looks like we would just argue forever. So as you say we shall agree to disagree.

Thanks for the snide comments too, I wont reply to you in future.

[Hobbisbang]

OK

but BT cannot provide in HULL

[Hobbisbang]

Stormy

Sorry if I seam aggressive I have had a very bad day fighting KCon.

You have very valid points.

I will explain why BT cannot enter KCon area

BT are massive 17 billion pounds worth if BT entered HULL KCon would scream to OFCOM and it would be upheld due to the fact that BT can flood the area and KCon wouldn’t stand a chance. As BT are SMP in a national  terms.

The only way you could provide services in this area is if you paid BT for services and competed as a small operator.

This would be fesable but you would need to set up POPs with wireless nodes.

I have calculated to cover the main exchange areas with a wireless solution would cost about 5 million.

To provide ADSL DSLAMs in KCons exchanges would cost about 10 Million.

Yes economics play a massive role but in the interests of BT its not about the money its about OFCONcentration.

[Kersy]

was in town yesterday and and a mate who works at kingston hq in town told me bt have the building next door,  which was in total darkness (was about 6 o, clock). its opposite closed down heaven and hell .  nearly buillt onto kc building.  are they moving into hull??

dont get me wrong, used to think was great hull having there own tel. comp. (think they could look after customers better and provide better service if they tried)

Is this true about bt next door (I dont know for sure but I do trust him)

[Hobbisbang]

Yes BT live next door to KCon

but only an interconnection and Network services (trunks)

Big hole in the wall and BT pass cables in (very high tech)