Karoo - Fail?

[willcocks]

Hello


I spoke at length last night to Karoo Technical Support.

They informed me that Hamachi (a mesh zero configuration VPN tool) was P2P software and therefore shaped. (https://secure.logmein.com/products/hamachi2/)

Surely in this sense the entire internet is P2P software? I challenge Karoo to proove that Hamachi is actually "peer to peer" in the sense that bit torrent is. This software should not be shaped in ANY WAY.

I am so angry that they have shaped this application.

I was told that 20 to 30kb/s on SSL news at peak is acceptable. I understood that there was a usage allowance... Surely I should be allowed to use this allowance? I do not understand why Karoo shapes me in this manner AND charges me for excess usage. Could this please be explained by a representitive of Karoo?

Could other people please report their news speeds as other members of this forum get in excess of 5 meg at peak times. Could users of usenet please post their speeds at peak & package. I was told that over 20kb/s is FREAK but I doubt this is the case...

http://ftp://80.84.50.245/karoo/shittest.jpg
  - Karoo Pro around 7pm last night

Thanks in advance for any comments,

[dylan]

You're right. Hamachi is definately a zero-configuration VPN rather than a P2P product.

As for shaping you down to 20kB/s for newsgroups on Karoo Pro, that's ridiculous. I've seen up to 700/800 kB/s peaktime (8-10PM) for SSL newsgroups and 1200 kB/s off peak (1AM) on a Karoo Pro account not so long back (admittedly I don't use news myself often so this could be a freak but that's one example). You didn't mention who your newsgroup provider was. Have you tried a free trial anywhere else as a test to rule out the news provider?

I suggest that you register (if you have not already) yourself a twitter account, and complain on twitter to @KarooBroadband. In my experience your complaint then seems to get dealt with by someone who has a clue what they are talking about if you complain on twitter.

Good luck

Dyls

[richardmyers]

Similar to the rapidshare shaping, just because some use it illegally doesn't mean that all do... Why penalise the majority...

[willcocks]

I've complained on Twitter about Hamachi with no response I know about.

As for the speed what will complaining get me? I have tried for atleast a year now. I am certain something is wrong with my package. How can they justify this shaping & a usage limit? It is madness.

[gusgormen]

IMHO i believe they can do what ever they want as there are no alternatives, and although they seem to want to give you a service that will suffice, in the end without the threat of being able to go to another company, they will not provide the packages that other companies do.

i also believe that as soon as another provider comes in to the area ( if they ever do!) all customers, business and private, will leave in droves and Karoo will be in the sh1t.

all i want it to do is watch skyplayer, they could cache all the files so i dont have to use up bandwidth, but they dont give a crap and unless i want to have buffering every 10 seconds (karoo max), or pay extra due to limited downloads (mid&pro) i'm stuck.  personally i would use anyone other than krapoo, but i'm stuck until my house sells, then bt land here i come!

[dylan]

I've complained on Twitter about Hamachi with no response I know about.

Keep an eye out. It can sometimes be a couple of days. You usually get someone who knows what they are on about rather than a drone to look at your problem if you go down this route.

[friendlykcengineer]

Check your PMs

[Adrian]

FKCE, does the Peak Info Rate for Usenet/P2P still stand at 3Mbit 6pm-midnight?

cheers,

[Robo]

3 mbit  Lucky if I can get 1mbit between 6pm - midnight

[Adrian]

I think peak information rate is the maximum throughput speed for such traffic, if the network isn't that busy, otherwise its between 0 and 3Mbit

[friendlykcengineer]

Yes Adrian, you are correct. The PIR is 3Mbps 6pm to midnight for P2P & NNTP traffic on Lite, Mid & Pro, in other words you won't get more than this. What you actually get depends on overall demand. Last night demand was light between 6pm and 8pm, higher from 8pm to 10pm and low again from 10pm to midnight. Most customers should have been able to achieve 3Mbps for the lower demand times and about 2Mbps from 8pm to 10pm.

Willcocks, did you get my PM on Wednesday?

FKCE

[dylan]

To be honest, why should a PIR be set for any type of traffic on a package with a fixed bandwidth cap anyway? Surely once you have used all of your allowance, Karoo can charge for overusage? The only reason I can see for doing this is if you have less backhaul than you have sold to your customers isn't it? Can anyone explain this to me?

Dyls

[bobthebuilder]

if 3mbps if max you get of the new packages what the max you get on the old max packages during peak time as mine goes from about half a meg to 5 meg some nights

[Adrian]

To be honest, why should a PIR be set for any type of traffic on a package with a fixed bandwidth cap anyway? Surely once you have used all of your allowance, Karoo can charge for overusage? The only reason I can see for doing this is if you have less backhaul than you have sold to your customers isn't it? Can anyone explain this to me?
Dyls

True, also most evenings web/http traffic will be full speed while p2p/usenet traffic will be shaped to 3Mbit, why not just share the bandwidth out equally across all protocols rather than having such a big difference between them, if the bandwidth is available.

[Adrian]

Just seen this post regarding Tiscali's traffic management policy, seems to be similar to Karoo's:

Broadband services are based on the principle that many users share the same network resources. From time to time, there is a chance that the demand for the available bandwidth will exceed the capacity of the network. At Tiscali we have opted to deploy mechanisms that aim to create a level playing field, ensuring a fair and quality service for every customer.

The task of delivering equitable bandwidth for data, video and voice traffic carried over our network is called traffic management. It is the mechanism by which different types of traffic are recognized and handled to best effect for the overall performance of the network.

The network traffic generated by customers is identified according to its application type. Some types of traffic are more sensitive to delay and packet discard than others. The traffic management system will look to provide the optimum performance for the benefit of the majority of users and applications.

There is no time based application of the traffic management policies because congestion could potentially occur at any time. The policies are amended to changing conditions and optimized regularly. Our typical peak times however are between 6pm and 10pm weekdays and weekend afternoons.

The general principles we adopt are as follows:

All traffic is identified by application, and assigned to a class.
Prioritisation of traffic is given according to the class of service.
No ports or protocols are blocked.
Tiscali operates no time of day criteria for traffic management.

The negative results of traffic management are that some users may experience reduced throughput rates, for some applications, during heavily congested times. This is especially likely for Peer to Peer (P2P) and News Group applications.

P2P applications are those used for downloading, typically very large files such as movies, over extended periods. If left unchecked, P2P can be responsible for consuming over 70% of the available bandwidth, despite being used by a fraction of the user base. Peer to Peer applications can be left running during non-peak times, to enable content to be delivered.

Peer to Peer applications include, but are not limited, to the following:

Bittorrent
Gnutella
eDonkey/eMule
Kontiki

News Groups are applications used for discussing topics or more often the sharing of large data files. Like P2P applications, Newsgroups are considered as non-time sensitive traffic. As such the traffic is given a lower priority compared to other types of traffic.