ADSL Not designed for Streaming!

[Sean]

Basically, as "Karoo" asked, I sent feedback to the helpdesk, with the subject of "Karoo Forums Feedback".  I went back and forth a few times, sending packet dumps, screenshots, traceroutes, times it was particularly bad etc..  I co-opeated with the team, in hope something could be found out for us Max users.

Today, I get the response below, which is a total joke, is a smack in the face at the amount of time I spent preparing data for them:

Dear <nodename>
 
Firstly, thank you for taking the time to send us your details in relation to the problems you were experiencing. Your feedback helped us analyse the issue in more detail so we could find a solution.
The outcome of our analysis is that because of the way in which you use the internet, your Max option 2 package is unfortunately out-of-date. Karoo Max is served on ADSL technology, which was not designed to support the demand of regular or intensive video streaming and other applications when it was launched.
 
Technology has moved on to better support these applications, which is why we would recommend switching to one of our ADSL2+ packages. You may not see a significant increase in speed but it’s highly likely you will get a better quality streaming experience from the analysis we have seen.
 
We hope you find this information useful. If you would like more information about the range of packages visit www.karoo.co.uk/broadband.

I have sent them a response complaining about this response, as it's either factually incorrect or deliberate deception.

[Adrian]

They really shouldn't be sending out that kind of response...

[bobthebuilder]

why dont they just switch everyone on to adsl2 but cap the speed to what they get now

[Adrian]

why dont they just switch everyone on to adsl2 but cap the speed to what they get now

That's been suggested before, however you would get the same speeds as the MAX packages use a different bandwidth "pool".

[willcocks]

this response is either from somebody who lacks knowledge or is trying to intentionally mislead you. Karoo could you please fire them? I'm bored of it now.

my worry is how many people *would* fall for this? This tends to prove they are throttling max packages to force people onto the adsl2 ones.

[Sean]

this response is either from somebody who lacks knowledge or is trying to intentionally mislead you.

This was (unfortunately) from the "Customer Technical Support Team Manager ".

my worry is how many people *would* fall for this? This tends to prove they are throttling max packages to force people onto the adsl2 ones.

Same here.  I logged a complaint with Trading Standards last week, who have asked me to send them my correspondence with Karoo.  I have stopped complaining about speeds as such, and complained about the way they appaer to be forcing users into make the decisions Karoo would like.

[Sean]

To be fair to Karoo, as I posted their original email, here is their "clarification" on their meaning.

The point we are making is that the package you are on is one of our older packages. It was, in Internet terms, designed a long time ago. It is contended with other users of the service at busy times. When this happens your line speed may still be at 4.5meg but your throughput is where you see the "usable" speed and this may drop to a point where streaming can sometimes be an issue.

More recent packages do not operate in the same way, with the same level of contention and at busy times although you may see a small drop in speed, it is not nearly as noticeable as on your present package and should be enough to stream without buffering.

This is not only true on a new ADSL1 connection. With an ADSL2 connection it should be even better because with ADSL2, firstly your line speed may be higher and secondly your connection should be more stable than with ADSL1. With the much lesser drop at busy times and a higher speed to start with, the new packages are more suitable to your needs.

It's all a scam.

[dylan]

@karoobroadband - Please read this thread. It makes you look bad.

[bobthebuilder]

we wont have this problem is 1 months time when hull city go down lol

[Karoo]

We can absolutely assure you there is no 'scam' to make people move over to the ADSL2+ packages. We are working extremely hard to ensure our customers are on the best package for them. If we believe moving to ADSL2+ wouldn't help, we wouldn't suggest it. But if we think it could, we will. Our Technical Support team work with every customer who calls us on a 1-2-1 basis and in some cases will advise switching may not be the best option. We can only advise based on the facts and the feedback each customer provides.

In many cases customers that do switch pay less per month than they do on legacy (pre-Max) and Max packages, but most importantly we want our customers to get the best possible service they can, which is why we have been communicating with you and many others to ensure people are not only aware there are upgraded services available, but that we are trying to make these services better suited to your needs.

We do listen to your feedback and have made changes on the back of it. We will continue to do this now and in the future.

Thanks
Karoo

[stormy]

Sean, they basically are throttling Max, its clear to me that at peak times its been throttled back so much its not usable for anything other than basic browsing, emailing and such.

All the testing I have done indicates as much, my connection flies off peak but peak times, its impossible to do anything which requires any sustained bandwidth. Karoo may not admit it, but that's how it is from my experience. I wouldn't mind but I am apparently paying for 20Gb of peak usage, and I doubt I will ever be able to get near that because I can't actually use any data intensive applications at peak hours anyway.

Its definitely a hell of a lot worse than before they were plugging the ADSL2+ service to heavily. I have been on Max for a LONG time, and this is as bad as it has been for a sustained period of time.

Just been to my friends who also lives in Brough and is on Max, his speeds are just as bad as mine, no chance to stream 396kbps iplayer material at all, getting 0.9Mbps from the KCOM Speedtest and 0.2Mbps and 0.5Mbps from Manchester and London respectively.

What a joke, my Orange HSDPA connection is quicker!

[CarnifexOmega]

Actually, Karoo have admitted it.

For bandwith Max is the lowest priority of the lot, regardless of circumstances. I hate to confess but I upgraded (long story about work screwing me over for my connection to follow) and have had none of the problems and still pay the same per month. Ridiculous.

At least it will ease up a bit when Hull drop from the Premier League.

[grabo1530]

Actually, Karoo have admitted it.

For bandwith Max is the lowest priority of the lot, regardless of circumstances. I hate to confess but I upgraded (long story about work screwing me over for my connection to follow) and have had none of the problems and still pay the same per month. Ridiculous.

At least it will ease up a bit when Hull drop from the Premier League.

I do not think it will get any better if hull drop out the premier, all the one minute wonder fans that started to follow them only after they got in the premier ,will just turn to Man U or Spurs and still stream live football , but lets face it why shouldn’t they be able to do that ,the network should be able to sustain it if not then it should be upgraded correctly to do so ,not just re arranged to rob one of bandwidth to give another .Karoos take on this is "illegal streaming of live football”
If  all the customers decided to turn to some  legal hd streaming which  is something that is expected to work with out constant buffering then that too would put a spanner in the works , 
I am on karoo pro 1 and am seeing an increased amount of shaping from 2-00pm in the afternoon up to bedtime , that’s  robbing a priority user .

Again up to 22mg connection available .I connect at around 12 mg but am looking at it this way.
Karoo talked me out of my reliant robin because I complained it was too slow ,they sold me a Bmw that would and will go 3 times faster .but  then made detours  so it takes me longer to get to where I want to be , and for lots more cash .

[gusgormen]

i think i may vote for the communist party this year, at least then everyone in the country would have to have the same broadband, including Hull!

And if any of the MP's coming knocking on my door over the next few weeks, asking for my vote, my first question will be "What are you going to do about the dictatorship in Hull?"

And if they ask "what dictatorship?", i'll know that they've been paid off, and they wont be getting my vote.

[karlwb]

i think i may vote for the communist party this year, at least then everyone in the country would have to have the same broadband, including Hull!

And if any of the MP's coming knocking on my door over the next few weeks, asking for my vote, my first question will be "What are you going to do about the dictatorship in Hull?"

And if they ask "what dictatorship?", i'll know that they've been paid off, and they wont be getting my vote.

They'll come in peace....

....and go in pieces!!   

Karl